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	<title>Comments for synthetic zero</title>
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	<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com</link>
	<description>art, life, philosophy, architecture, literature, film, performance, and other stuff</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 23:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on The New York tech scene by synthetic zero archive</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1160#comment-967</link>
		<dc:creator>synthetic zero archive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1160#comment-967</guid>
		<description>[...] It is happening here, of course, already, and it is a trend I hope only accelerates (as I noted in another post). permalink &#124;  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It is happening here, of course, already, and it is a trend I hope only accelerates (as I noted in another post). permalink |  [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Russ Douthat&#8217;s irrational argument against gay marriage by mitsu</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1169#comment-957</link>
		<dc:creator>mitsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 17:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1169#comment-957</guid>
		<description>He's specifically saying that the state has an interest in privileging heterosexual marriage because it is involved in reproduction, as he notes at the end of the quoted paragraph, above: "And the fact that this interplay determines how and when and whether the vast majority of new human beings come into the world..." But it still makes no sense, whatsoever, even if it were true (which it isn't) that somehow heterosexual love is more  "thick" than homosexual love, because the state interest, if there is a state interest at all, only hinges upon its effect on our reproductive habits (as he himself admits). But clearly homosexual marriage would have no impact on heterosexual reproductive habits whatsoever! So the whole argument there is total nonsense.

Furthermore, Douthat elides over the fact that preventing gays and lesbians from marrying causes them great harm by preventing them from taking advantage of the many benefits society confers upon married couples. So one really has to justify pretty strongly a compelling state interest and I can't see any state interest whatsoever that makes any sense, beyond "I just happen to think heterosexual relationships are better and I want the state to officially say so even if it makes no difference whatsoever to me personally or to my life, other than validating me and my love life as better, richer, more valuable than the love life of homosexuals."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He&#8217;s specifically saying that the state has an interest in privileging heterosexual marriage because it is involved in reproduction, as he notes at the end of the quoted paragraph, above: &#8220;And the fact that this interplay determines how and when and whether the vast majority of new human beings come into the world&#8230;&#8221; But it still makes no sense, whatsoever, even if it were true (which it isn&#8217;t) that somehow heterosexual love is more  &#8220;thick&#8221; than homosexual love, because the state interest, if there is a state interest at all, only hinges upon its effect on our reproductive habits (as he himself admits). But clearly homosexual marriage would have no impact on heterosexual reproductive habits whatsoever! So the whole argument there is total nonsense.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Douthat elides over the fact that preventing gays and lesbians from marrying causes them great harm by preventing them from taking advantage of the many benefits society confers upon married couples. So one really has to justify pretty strongly a compelling state interest and I can&#8217;t see any state interest whatsoever that makes any sense, beyond &#8220;I just happen to think heterosexual relationships are better and I want the state to officially say so even if it makes no difference whatsoever to me personally or to my life, other than validating me and my love life as better, richer, more valuable than the love life of homosexuals.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Russ Douthat&#8217;s irrational argument against gay marriage by Gubatron</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1169#comment-956</link>
		<dc:creator>Gubatron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1169#comment-956</guid>
		<description>I have to read his article, can't believe he  meant to say that OTHER straight relationships would be affected by homosexual relationships, specially in a society where we don't even know the name of our next door neighbors.
I think he's just saying heterosexuals experience their relationship and the expectancy of fertility in ways a homosexual couple never will, even at different stages in life.

Whatever the case, I really wish a law will be passed to grant them rights for marriage, I couldn't care less who other people marry.

Plus it'll be very fun to also see the effects on immigration (and immigration law) once the stats on gay marriage start looking a little too inflated, 

1. because of all the LGBT international community coming here LEGALLY to get married and living a life with full rights (which in a way is already happening, literally all but one of my gay friends come from latin america and eastern europe.) 

2. because of all the LGBT international community looking to get married with Americans legitimately and staying and...

3. because of all the LGBT international community and the non-LGBT looking for an easy green card to escape their countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to read his article, can&#8217;t believe he  meant to say that OTHER straight relationships would be affected by homosexual relationships, specially in a society where we don&#8217;t even know the name of our next door neighbors.<br />
I think he&#8217;s just saying heterosexuals experience their relationship and the expectancy of fertility in ways a homosexual couple never will, even at different stages in life.</p>
<p>Whatever the case, I really wish a law will be passed to grant them rights for marriage, I couldn&#8217;t care less who other people marry.</p>
<p>Plus it&#8217;ll be very fun to also see the effects on immigration (and immigration law) once the stats on gay marriage start looking a little too inflated, </p>
<p>1. because of all the LGBT international community coming here LEGALLY to get married and living a life with full rights (which in a way is already happening, literally all but one of my gay friends come from latin america and eastern europe.) </p>
<p>2. because of all the LGBT international community looking to get married with Americans legitimately and staying and&#8230;</p>
<p>3. because of all the LGBT international community and the non-LGBT looking for an easy green card to escape their countries.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New York tech scene by Magda</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1160#comment-952</link>
		<dc:creator>Magda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 11:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1160#comment-952</guid>
		<description>This makes me want to go to California/West Coast in a much stronger way than ever before.

Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This makes me want to go to California/West Coast in a much stronger way than ever before.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New York tech scene by mitsu</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1160#comment-947</link>
		<dc:creator>mitsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 16:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1160#comment-947</guid>
		<description>Well, for better or worse, I don't think you're going to lose your bet --- but that doesn't mean New York is as bleak as I think you might make it out to be. I mean, I grew up on the West Coast, I certainly know exactly what you mean. It feels new, it feels alive, growing, active (not only the Bay Area). But the fact is, things tend to slosh around the country; ideas, culture, etc., it moves along with the people. There are lots of people moving to New York from the West, bringing that same energy and enthusiasm. When I first moved here eight years ago there were a lot of ideas, ways of doing things, etc., that were clearly new to a lot of folks I met here --- but that's not the case any longer. I no longer have to explain flat, horizontal management to folks, at least much less so than I did when I first moved here. People get it. Even in the financial services industry, there's a growing awareness that they aren't at the pinnacle of society, that the tech industry and the way things are done on the West Coast in fact generates things, builds things, in a way the financial services industry doesn't. Sure, the culture of the Sunday Styles wedding section is still alive and well, but I'm just saying the alternative is growing at a shockingly fast rate.

If you just come to visit a NY Tech Meetup you'd see what I mean. The energy is vibrant, electric; the last one I went to in July was huge, packed. Not a sclerotic suit anywhere to be seen. It's still not the size of the Bay Area tech scene and probably never will be, but it is real and larger than you'd think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, for better or worse, I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re going to lose your bet &#8212; but that doesn&#8217;t mean New York is as bleak as I think you might make it out to be. I mean, I grew up on the West Coast, I certainly know exactly what you mean. It feels new, it feels alive, growing, active (not only the Bay Area). But the fact is, things tend to slosh around the country; ideas, culture, etc., it moves along with the people. There are lots of people moving to New York from the West, bringing that same energy and enthusiasm. When I first moved here eight years ago there were a lot of ideas, ways of doing things, etc., that were clearly new to a lot of folks I met here &#8212; but that&#8217;s not the case any longer. I no longer have to explain flat, horizontal management to folks, at least much less so than I did when I first moved here. People get it. Even in the financial services industry, there&#8217;s a growing awareness that they aren&#8217;t at the pinnacle of society, that the tech industry and the way things are done on the West Coast in fact generates things, builds things, in a way the financial services industry doesn&#8217;t. Sure, the culture of the Sunday Styles wedding section is still alive and well, but I&#8217;m just saying the alternative is growing at a shockingly fast rate.</p>
<p>If you just come to visit a NY Tech Meetup you&#8217;d see what I mean. The energy is vibrant, electric; the last one I went to in July was huge, packed. Not a sclerotic suit anywhere to be seen. It&#8217;s still not the size of the Bay Area tech scene and probably never will be, but it is real and larger than you&#8217;d think.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New York tech scene by Antonio</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1160#comment-946</link>
		<dc:creator>Antonio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 15:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1160#comment-946</guid>
		<description>Thanks for responding.

I actually miss New York as well. My post is actually a love letter to New York, in a tough love sort of way.

At heart though, California has this Brave New World property to it (i.e. filled with ambitious arrivistes with big ideas) that New York maybe lost three generations of immigrants ago.

I secretly hope I lose my bet so I can move back....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for responding.</p>
<p>I actually miss New York as well. My post is actually a love letter to New York, in a tough love sort of way.</p>
<p>At heart though, California has this Brave New World property to it (i.e. filled with ambitious arrivistes with big ideas) that New York maybe lost three generations of immigrants ago.</p>
<p>I secretly hope I lose my bet so I can move back&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on free will and the philosophy of the incomplete by mitsu</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1151#comment-940</link>
		<dc:creator>mitsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1151#comment-940</guid>
		<description>I emailed Professor Strawson (the author of the NYT piece, above) a link to this post, and he was kind enough to read it and send me a brief reply:

"Thanks I agree with a lot of this — 
Galen"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I emailed Professor Strawson (the author of the NYT piece, above) a link to this post, and he was kind enough to read it and send me a brief reply:</p>
<p>&#8220;Thanks I agree with a lot of this —<br />
Galen&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on how are things going? and the here and now by villanelle.org : omnia et nihil &#187; The July syndrome</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=876#comment-935</link>
		<dc:creator>villanelle.org : omnia et nihil &#187; The July syndrome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=876#comment-935</guid>
		<description>[...] It is easy to say that the only lesson here is that my mood/energy is profoundly influenced by light levels, that I should really invest in a good lightbox before winter comes again, or move somewhere with a climate more like the one in which I grew up (bright and hot almost all year). But Mitsu reminds me not to overreact when things seem to be going well. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It is easy to say that the only lesson here is that my mood/energy is profoundly influenced by light levels, that I should really invest in a good lightbox before winter comes again, or move somewhere with a climate more like the one in which I grew up (bright and hot almost all year). But Mitsu reminds me not to overreact when things seem to be going well. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on ephemeral thoughts by james</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1108#comment-930</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 04:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1108#comment-930</guid>
		<description>on one hand it seems like forever ago, these fifteen years, and yet the other hand is like hold on, what's so different, what's changed? that hand knows you and so many others, lives the  continuity. and that other hand has no sense of history, doesn't know or even wanna know about webcams pointing at coffeepots or ftp or message boards or or or... and our feet? our feet still remember the days before computer screens and screeds. typewriters and tape decks and records shops and maybe even letters and postcards, checks, exact change. in ten years it'll be library stacks and books. a past encumbered/unnumbered by things. strange indeed to stand in this threshold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>on one hand it seems like forever ago, these fifteen years, and yet the other hand is like hold on, what&#8217;s so different, what&#8217;s changed? that hand knows you and so many others, lives the  continuity. and that other hand has no sense of history, doesn&#8217;t know or even wanna know about webcams pointing at coffeepots or ftp or message boards or or or&#8230; and our feet? our feet still remember the days before computer screens and screeds. typewriters and tape decks and records shops and maybe even letters and postcards, checks, exact change. in ten years it&#8217;ll be library stacks and books. a past encumbered/unnumbered by things. strange indeed to stand in this threshold.</p>
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		<title>Comment on why ayn rand was unbelievably wrong in the stupidest possible way by graywyvern</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-927</link>
		<dc:creator>graywyvern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-927</guid>
		<description>ayn rand serves as a nietzsche for stupid people (although she came along too late to rescue nietzsche from his own equally stupid followers). just as there are musics for nonmusicians, &#38; musics for musicians &#38; people who care to discern things in music, so must there be in philosophy a place for those who do not share the critical thinking abilities one might be forgiven from thinking necessary for a true student of philosophy. for we are living in a levelling age--that styles itself rebellious--&#38; all things must be meddled in by the masses.

m.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ayn rand serves as a nietzsche for stupid people (although she came along too late to rescue nietzsche from his own equally stupid followers). just as there are musics for nonmusicians, &amp; musics for musicians &amp; people who care to discern things in music, so must there be in philosophy a place for those who do not share the critical thinking abilities one might be forgiven from thinking necessary for a true student of philosophy. for we are living in a levelling age&#8211;that styles itself rebellious&#8211;&amp; all things must be meddled in by the masses.</p>
<p>m.</p>
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		<title>Comment on discipline, relaxation, and presence by Francesca Webb</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=969#comment-924</link>
		<dc:creator>Francesca Webb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 19:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=969#comment-924</guid>
		<description>there are lots of social issues that we face these days due to hardships and disease.::;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there are lots of social issues that we face these days due to hardships and disease.::;</p>
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		<title>Comment on why ayn rand was unbelievably wrong in the stupidest possible way by omnia et nihil &#187; Thinking without words</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-921</link>
		<dc:creator>omnia et nihil &#187; Thinking without words</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-921</guid>
		<description>[...] In the idea for the &#8220;apple is red&#8221; example I used in my  anti-Rand post, I have: apple (image of apple with mottled surface), then I have a little animation of red -&#62; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In the idea for the &#8220;apple is red&#8221; example I used in my  anti-Rand post, I have: apple (image of apple with mottled surface), then I have a little animation of red -&gt; [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The nature of reference: a third way between realism and anti-realism by mitsu</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1045#comment-920</link>
		<dc:creator>mitsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1045#comment-920</guid>
		<description>This isn't really the case, for the simple reason that it isn't necessary to have 100%, absolute certainty. That is to say, if we were to adopt your definition of "blind faith" it would have to apply to everything, since we cannot even trust our own reasoning or our memory as it might have been replaced in the last instant by aliens or something of that kind. But, to reference Wittgenstein again, that would not be playing the language game correctly. So of course we need "blind faith" in order to be absolutely certain of anything at all, but we certainly don't need blind faith in order to adopt provisional hypotheses based on the available evidence which seem parsimonious and consistent with what appears to be our memory, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t really the case, for the simple reason that it isn&#8217;t necessary to have 100%, absolute certainty. That is to say, if we were to adopt your definition of &#8220;blind faith&#8221; it would have to apply to everything, since we cannot even trust our own reasoning or our memory as it might have been replaced in the last instant by aliens or something of that kind. But, to reference Wittgenstein again, that would not be playing the language game correctly. So of course we need &#8220;blind faith&#8221; in order to be absolutely certain of anything at all, but we certainly don&#8217;t need blind faith in order to adopt provisional hypotheses based on the available evidence which seem parsimonious and consistent with what appears to be our memory, etc.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The nature of reference: a third way between realism and anti-realism by judson</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1045#comment-919</link>
		<dc:creator>judson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1045#comment-919</guid>
		<description>hi, it's judson you might know from Ellen or a LISA meeting.  anyway, am checking out the space, saw this "Let me start with where I agree with Rand. I agree that blind faith, or believing things without reason, is both unnecessary and in many ways problematic."

You might want to know the technical reason it is necessary.  and why it is impossible to avoid.  every single thing we experience sensorily is just blind faith, and whatever conclusions we draw from the raw impulses (not yet images, etc) are based on those dubious premises.  furthermore, metaphorical concepts, like a number "line", is a made-up abstraction, but one nearly all of us have faith in.

Belief is like oil to a brain; it works much much better with it, and sometimes not much at all without it.  Ayn may be sloppy with her logic, but most folks come off that way, when they don't have all the info or know what info is relevant.

social software is pretty much just a magnet for sloppy thinking.  but sloppy thinking is so common, that it's not worth bothering over.  just stay cool and do your thing.

you won't find much relevant info on twitter.  it's sloppy folk logic, as is rand's, albeit another variation, and nothing to take seriously.  a good book on this subject (whether we agree or not with his thesis) is "computation and cognition" by pylyshyn.

have fun</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi, it&#8217;s judson you might know from Ellen or a LISA meeting.  anyway, am checking out the space, saw this &#8220;Let me start with where I agree with Rand. I agree that blind faith, or believing things without reason, is both unnecessary and in many ways problematic.&#8221;</p>
<p>You might want to know the technical reason it is necessary.  and why it is impossible to avoid.  every single thing we experience sensorily is just blind faith, and whatever conclusions we draw from the raw impulses (not yet images, etc) are based on those dubious premises.  furthermore, metaphorical concepts, like a number &#8220;line&#8221;, is a made-up abstraction, but one nearly all of us have faith in.</p>
<p>Belief is like oil to a brain; it works much much better with it, and sometimes not much at all without it.  Ayn may be sloppy with her logic, but most folks come off that way, when they don&#8217;t have all the info or know what info is relevant.</p>
<p>social software is pretty much just a magnet for sloppy thinking.  but sloppy thinking is so common, that it&#8217;s not worth bothering over.  just stay cool and do your thing.</p>
<p>you won&#8217;t find much relevant info on twitter.  it&#8217;s sloppy folk logic, as is rand&#8217;s, albeit another variation, and nothing to take seriously.  a good book on this subject (whether we agree or not with his thesis) is &#8220;computation and cognition&#8221; by pylyshyn.</p>
<p>have fun</p>
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		<title>Comment on Can video games be art? by Curt Sampson</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1023#comment-918</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Sampson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 04:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1023#comment-918</guid>
		<description>I don't find that, in well made games, suspension of disbelief is such a big problem for me. In fact, I find it much easier in, say, Fallout 3 or the Uncharted series, to suspend my disbelief than I do for many well-receive television shows (such as Lost or 24). So this may be more of a personal issue with you than you realize.

That said, there's still a huge amount of technical work to be done in the gaming world which will mitigate the various suspension of disbelief problems. We're seeing only bits of what we need now, and these bits tend to be divided across different games. A few examples:

* Convincing graphics. I think we're getting there now, with the PS 3, XBox 360, and modern computer graphics systems, but there's still a lot more that can be done here.

* Good acting. The Uncharted series, using simultaneous voice acting and motion capturehis is otherwise currently quite rare, is making great strides here, but this is otherwise currently quite rare.

* Stronger interactions with other characters with more nuanced choices. As you point out, this is hard, and may need to wait for much better voice recognition technology before it becomes significantly more convincing.

* Real moral choice that makes a difference to how the game turns out. Fallout 3 is the classic example here; Bioshock also has it to some degree.

Then there's the idea of open world gameplay. This is not always necessary or even desirable, and, interestingly enough, seems very nearly unique to video games.

All that said, I found the two Uncharted games to be quite as enjoyable, probably moreso, than any of the Indiana Jones films, so we're capable of reaching at least that level today.

Where Ebert perhaps went wrong is calling what he's looking for "Art" rather than "Great Art." It seems to me by his definitions, most popular films and books are not art, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t find that, in well made games, suspension of disbelief is such a big problem for me. In fact, I find it much easier in, say, Fallout 3 or the Uncharted series, to suspend my disbelief than I do for many well-receive television shows (such as Lost or 24). So this may be more of a personal issue with you than you realize.</p>
<p>That said, there&#8217;s still a huge amount of technical work to be done in the gaming world which will mitigate the various suspension of disbelief problems. We&#8217;re seeing only bits of what we need now, and these bits tend to be divided across different games. A few examples:</p>
<p>* Convincing graphics. I think we&#8217;re getting there now, with the PS 3, XBox 360, and modern computer graphics systems, but there&#8217;s still a lot more that can be done here.</p>
<p>* Good acting. The Uncharted series, using simultaneous voice acting and motion capturehis is otherwise currently quite rare, is making great strides here, but this is otherwise currently quite rare.</p>
<p>* Stronger interactions with other characters with more nuanced choices. As you point out, this is hard, and may need to wait for much better voice recognition technology before it becomes significantly more convincing.</p>
<p>* Real moral choice that makes a difference to how the game turns out. Fallout 3 is the classic example here; Bioshock also has it to some degree.</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s the idea of open world gameplay. This is not always necessary or even desirable, and, interestingly enough, seems very nearly unique to video games.</p>
<p>All that said, I found the two Uncharted games to be quite as enjoyable, probably moreso, than any of the Indiana Jones films, so we&#8217;re capable of reaching at least that level today.</p>
<p>Where Ebert perhaps went wrong is calling what he&#8217;s looking for &#8220;Art&#8221; rather than &#8220;Great Art.&#8221; It seems to me by his definitions, most popular films and books are not art, either.</p>
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		<title>Comment on faith and doubt by Steve Witham</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1066#comment-917</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Witham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 17:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1066#comment-917</guid>
		<description>Yes.

Doubt of one's own thoughts and feelings.  Doubt of one's worldview, of things that seem true of the world as if directly perceived.

And how clear it is, once you're there, how safe and right a place it is, home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.</p>
<p>Doubt of one&#8217;s own thoughts and feelings.  Doubt of one&#8217;s worldview, of things that seem true of the world as if directly perceived.</p>
<p>And how clear it is, once you&#8217;re there, how safe and right a place it is, home.</p>
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		<title>Comment on why ayn rand was unbelievably wrong in the stupidest possible way by mitsu</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-911</link>
		<dc:creator>mitsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 04:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-911</guid>
		<description>Lee, I appreciate your attempts to defend or explicate Rand, but I'm afraid that you're careening all over the place in your post, misunderstanding my argument and assuming I'm saying a bunch of things I'm not saying. I suppose that's what I get for writing a post about Ayn Rand, whose thought is rife with such holes and basic absurdities; I don't really enjoy writing about her thought as it invites precisely these sorts of poorly-considered arguments and issues.

First of all, please don't misunderstand my position. I have made no attempt in this post to detail in depth my own epistemology, which is extremely intricate and bears little resemblance to anything you've considered in the past (based on your remarks above). For example, I did not argue that "propositions can not have truth value", nor have I been arguing that truth can only be found in my "personal constructs" and so on. I don't want to get into what my actual views are on these subjects, but suffice it to say they're far more subtle than what you're assuming here.

I am making, above, two very straightforward arguments. The first argument I made is a direct consequence of the following two assertions about Rand's thought (again I hate to even use the word "thought" to describe Rand's fuzzy-headed ideas, but anyway):

1. All propositions are either true or false (law of the excluded middle)

2. A statement such as "the apple is red" is a proposition.

My argument I believe quite conclusively demonstrates that holding those two views together is irrational. Either one has to give up 1) or give up 2) in the light of the very obvious and simple argument I put forward. Note that my classmate, whom I mentioned above, understood Rand to be asserting these two things, and my argument, obvious though it is, apparently eventually convinced him that Rand must be wrong about this.

It is this and only this I argued in the first part of my post, above. I made no additional assertions about how it is impossible to assign any truth value to any propositions whatsoever, nor have I made any assertions that truth value is entirely relative or subjective. For example, in &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic" rel="nofollow"&gt;Zadeh's fuzzy logic&lt;/a&gt;, propositions can take on truth values ranging from 0 to 1 (false to true), which obviously includes the values 0 and 1 in the spectrum. I think Zadeh's model is still too simplistic but it is a proof of concept that the argument I am making does not involve giving up all notions of any sort of truth --- it simply involves giving up the notion that propositions can only have one of two truth values. My own use of language is far more sophisticated than either a notion of pure relativism or even Zadeh's approach; if you want to understand my views on certainty, I would say they're somewhat along the lines of Wittgenstein's argument in &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Certainty-Ludwig-Wittgenstein/dp/0061316865" rel="nofollow"&gt;On Certainty&lt;/a&gt; as well as his views in &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Philosophical-Investigations-3rd-Ludwig-Wittgenstein/dp/0024288101" rel="nofollow"&gt;Philosophical Investigations&lt;/a&gt; --- one of the things he says is that even though one can never be absolutely certain of any proposition, it is nevertheless correct to speak of being certain because that is how the language game is played (that is to say to be "almost completely certain" is functionally what we really mean when we say we are "certain" about something). However, there's far more I could say on that subject, particularly regarding relativity of truth; my position is quite complex, and I don't have the time or space to say it here in these comments (I will however detail it in future posts, and I've alluded to it in some prior posts).

Regarding your comments about the financial system, again you're arguing about a completely separate point from the one I was making. Of course I am aware that libertarians frequently make the argument that market instability is due not to some failing in libertarian ideas but due to the fact that the market does not reach the libertarian ideal of one which completely lacks government involvement. But that is a mostly unrelated point to the one I was making. My argument was that, whether or not one can argue that in the case of our own financial system government interference contributes to market instability, one can easily come up with highly simplified thought experiments which DO involve absolutely no government interference and yet clearly suffer from serious long-term instability (as is the case with my "fish in the lake" example, quite obviously). Another example more apropos to the financial crash: there have been numerous experiments in economic psychology (a new and quite fascinating field) which show conclusively that market bubbles occur even in idealized market conditions with absolutely no "government" intervention whatsoever. These experiments have been ongoing for many years now and are quite incontrovertible. For example, consider this survey paper:

http://bit.ly/asHMO8

Whether or not one can argue that government interference was a contributing factor in the recent market crash, it's simply beyond question that even purely free markets do not, in fact, always reach equilibrium and stay there, in practice. The simple reason for this is that while a market is rising, it is in fact reasonable for market participants to try to cash in on this rising market even when asset prices exceed their underlying value. This phenomenon does not depend on government interference, whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee, I appreciate your attempts to defend or explicate Rand, but I&#8217;m afraid that you&#8217;re careening all over the place in your post, misunderstanding my argument and assuming I&#8217;m saying a bunch of things I&#8217;m not saying. I suppose that&#8217;s what I get for writing a post about Ayn Rand, whose thought is rife with such holes and basic absurdities; I don&#8217;t really enjoy writing about her thought as it invites precisely these sorts of poorly-considered arguments and issues.</p>
<p>First of all, please don&#8217;t misunderstand my position. I have made no attempt in this post to detail in depth my own epistemology, which is extremely intricate and bears little resemblance to anything you&#8217;ve considered in the past (based on your remarks above). For example, I did not argue that &#8220;propositions can not have truth value&#8221;, nor have I been arguing that truth can only be found in my &#8220;personal constructs&#8221; and so on. I don&#8217;t want to get into what my actual views are on these subjects, but suffice it to say they&#8217;re far more subtle than what you&#8217;re assuming here.</p>
<p>I am making, above, two very straightforward arguments. The first argument I made is a direct consequence of the following two assertions about Rand&#8217;s thought (again I hate to even use the word &#8220;thought&#8221; to describe Rand&#8217;s fuzzy-headed ideas, but anyway):</p>
<p>1. All propositions are either true or false (law of the excluded middle)</p>
<p>2. A statement such as &#8220;the apple is red&#8221; is a proposition.</p>
<p>My argument I believe quite conclusively demonstrates that holding those two views together is irrational. Either one has to give up 1) or give up 2) in the light of the very obvious and simple argument I put forward. Note that my classmate, whom I mentioned above, understood Rand to be asserting these two things, and my argument, obvious though it is, apparently eventually convinced him that Rand must be wrong about this.</p>
<p>It is this and only this I argued in the first part of my post, above. I made no additional assertions about how it is impossible to assign any truth value to any propositions whatsoever, nor have I made any assertions that truth value is entirely relative or subjective. For example, in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic" rel="nofollow">Zadeh&#8217;s fuzzy logic</a>, propositions can take on truth values ranging from 0 to 1 (false to true), which obviously includes the values 0 and 1 in the spectrum. I think Zadeh&#8217;s model is still too simplistic but it is a proof of concept that the argument I am making does not involve giving up all notions of any sort of truth &#8212; it simply involves giving up the notion that propositions can only have one of two truth values. My own use of language is far more sophisticated than either a notion of pure relativism or even Zadeh&#8217;s approach; if you want to understand my views on certainty, I would say they&#8217;re somewhat along the lines of Wittgenstein&#8217;s argument in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Certainty-Ludwig-Wittgenstein/dp/0061316865" rel="nofollow">On Certainty</a> as well as his views in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Philosophical-Investigations-3rd-Ludwig-Wittgenstein/dp/0024288101" rel="nofollow">Philosophical Investigations</a> &#8212; one of the things he says is that even though one can never be absolutely certain of any proposition, it is nevertheless correct to speak of being certain because that is how the language game is played (that is to say to be &#8220;almost completely certain&#8221; is functionally what we really mean when we say we are &#8220;certain&#8221; about something). However, there&#8217;s far more I could say on that subject, particularly regarding relativity of truth; my position is quite complex, and I don&#8217;t have the time or space to say it here in these comments (I will however detail it in future posts, and I&#8217;ve alluded to it in some prior posts).</p>
<p>Regarding your comments about the financial system, again you&#8217;re arguing about a completely separate point from the one I was making. Of course I am aware that libertarians frequently make the argument that market instability is due not to some failing in libertarian ideas but due to the fact that the market does not reach the libertarian ideal of one which completely lacks government involvement. But that is a mostly unrelated point to the one I was making. My argument was that, whether or not one can argue that in the case of our own financial system government interference contributes to market instability, one can easily come up with highly simplified thought experiments which DO involve absolutely no government interference and yet clearly suffer from serious long-term instability (as is the case with my &#8220;fish in the lake&#8221; example, quite obviously). Another example more apropos to the financial crash: there have been numerous experiments in economic psychology (a new and quite fascinating field) which show conclusively that market bubbles occur even in idealized market conditions with absolutely no &#8220;government&#8221; intervention whatsoever. These experiments have been ongoing for many years now and are quite incontrovertible. For example, consider this survey paper:</p>
<p><a href="http://bit.ly/asHMO8" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/asHMO8</a></p>
<p>Whether or not one can argue that government interference was a contributing factor in the recent market crash, it&#8217;s simply beyond question that even purely free markets do not, in fact, always reach equilibrium and stay there, in practice. The simple reason for this is that while a market is rising, it is in fact reasonable for market participants to try to cash in on this rising market even when asset prices exceed their underlying value. This phenomenon does not depend on government interference, whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>Comment on why ayn rand was unbelievably wrong in the stupidest possible way by LK</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-910</link>
		<dc:creator>LK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 02:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-910</guid>
		<description>Ha, ha.  You must also see the joke in your proposition that argues the truth that propositions can not have truth value.  Other than that - I still submit you are arguing against an Ayn Rand that does not exist (and in saying so I make if not my own joke, at least a pun).  For Rand, the truth of something lies within that thing -- not within our fallible knowledge of it.  (as I mentioned, knowledge does not equal sensory perception for her.) Put another way -- to turn your microscope on Ayn Rand through the lonely lens of epistomology is actually to view her out of focus.  
Throughout your critique you start with her supposed "models of reality" but that is the opposite of Rand.  She starts with reality.

Also a bit amusing -- you argue Rand (or her philosophy) is not only wrong but, actually, evil.  If you believe your own proposition about the knowability of things, then you already are aware such a claim can not be made.   As you know, the only claim you can make is that the wrongness and evilness can not be known to exist in Rand or in her ideas but only in your personal construct of them-- ie., your knowledge of the wrongness and evilness lies in your personal dialectic with Rand's thinking, not within her thinking itself.  Actually, if you were to claim that, I would in this case agree with you.  I also wonder, where is the fuzzy logic in such a proposition.

On happiness, there is more baked into my short comment to be considered for I think it struck the main point.  But to take a new tack completely  Our financial system is possibly as close to the direct opposite of the Randian ideal as can be had.  Here, in fact you have her favorite bugbears -- a powerful, organized, non-value creating interest group (the financial industry) symbiotically feeding off of and feeding a corrupt government, at the expense of the individual, who is victimized by both.  I'm sure many libertarians have no true or deep understanding of Rand but it is precisely the thing she'd want Atlas shrugging off, with its destructive derivatives industry built upon the back of enabling government financial institutions (even prior to the bailout).  The conservative argues the meltdown was caused by the government via Fannie and Freddie.  The liberal argues it was caused by greedy corporations and traders.  The libertarian argues it was caused by the corrupt dialectic between the two.  And that's really Rand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha, ha.  You must also see the joke in your proposition that argues the truth that propositions can not have truth value.  Other than that - I still submit you are arguing against an Ayn Rand that does not exist (and in saying so I make if not my own joke, at least a pun).  For Rand, the truth of something lies within that thing &#8212; not within our fallible knowledge of it.  (as I mentioned, knowledge does not equal sensory perception for her.) Put another way &#8212; to turn your microscope on Ayn Rand through the lonely lens of epistomology is actually to view her out of focus.<br />
Throughout your critique you start with her supposed &#8220;models of reality&#8221; but that is the opposite of Rand.  She starts with reality.</p>
<p>Also a bit amusing &#8212; you argue Rand (or her philosophy) is not only wrong but, actually, evil.  If you believe your own proposition about the knowability of things, then you already are aware such a claim can not be made.   As you know, the only claim you can make is that the wrongness and evilness can not be known to exist in Rand or in her ideas but only in your personal construct of them&#8211; ie., your knowledge of the wrongness and evilness lies in your personal dialectic with Rand&#8217;s thinking, not within her thinking itself.  Actually, if you were to claim that, I would in this case agree with you.  I also wonder, where is the fuzzy logic in such a proposition.</p>
<p>On happiness, there is more baked into my short comment to be considered for I think it struck the main point.  But to take a new tack completely  Our financial system is possibly as close to the direct opposite of the Randian ideal as can be had.  Here, in fact you have her favorite bugbears &#8212; a powerful, organized, non-value creating interest group (the financial industry) symbiotically feeding off of and feeding a corrupt government, at the expense of the individual, who is victimized by both.  I&#8217;m sure many libertarians have no true or deep understanding of Rand but it is precisely the thing she&#8217;d want Atlas shrugging off, with its destructive derivatives industry built upon the back of enabling government financial institutions (even prior to the bailout).  The conservative argues the meltdown was caused by the government via Fannie and Freddie.  The liberal argues it was caused by greedy corporations and traders.  The libertarian argues it was caused by the corrupt dialectic between the two.  And that&#8217;s really Rand.</p>
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		<title>Comment on why ayn rand was unbelievably wrong in the stupidest possible way by mitsu</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-909</link>
		<dc:creator>mitsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 20:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-909</guid>
		<description>hahahahaha</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hahahahaha</p>
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		<title>Comment on why ayn rand was unbelievably wrong in the stupidest possible way by heather</title>
		<link>http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 20:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.syntheticzero.com/?p=1072#comment-908</guid>
		<description>I'd call that an Ayn Rant</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d call that an Ayn Rant</p>
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